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The immigration debate is strange to me
You’re so naive.
It’s almost cute.
Look. I need to ask.
Did you even read my post?
Two thousand is a lot to save up. Especially because a lot of the people that come to the US aren’t coming to be happy and frolic. They come to make just enough money to be able to live.
Your idea sounds better. It really does. But it’s not a solution. Because the set of problems that immigrants from Latin and South America are facing now are completely different to the challenges that people who came here from Western Europe faced in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
You talked about hypothetical factories that would open up and give these people jobs, but that’s not going to happen. If these immigrants have the right to ask for things like minimum wage and health benefits, why would companies open up factories and hire them? About how Esteban would work hard and one day he might just run the factory where he once earned only minimum wage. It’s a nice story. It’s great, but that’s all it is. It’s just a story.
Unless you’re talking about white Latinos, that story isn’t going to really apply to very many of the Latinos who do end up having to leave their countries. In order for your model to work, a lot of racist and xenophobic sentiments would just have to magically disappear.
Yes, two thousand dollars is a lot to save up. I thought that it was the rough equivalent of the fee that was in place in from 1910-1920, but upon further research, I found that it was much lower - About the equivalent of $500 or so today.
And while the minimum wage thing does present an obstacle, this could be overcome by lowering the minimum wage. Yes, this will present problems with living conditions, but decreasing it by even a dollar an hour would make immigrants much more attractive to manufacturing companies, as making things in the US would eliminate shipping problems.
The thing with Esteban climbing the corporate ladder is unlikely, yes - Which is why I said that his descendants would have the higher position. This is exactly what happened to my Great-Grandfather - he was a factory worker (and a horrible abusive alcoholic, which didn’t help) his whole life, but his son managed to become a manager at United Airlines.
Now, I will take issue on the Racism/Xenophobia thing - Yes, that does exist in America. And it is pretty bad. But it was the same way for Italians up until recently. You could see “Help Wanted - Italians need not apply” signs on stores, people used racial slurs (my favorite being “WOP,” or “With Out Papers,”) and the like. This racism went away after Italians gained a good portion of the population.
The Italians weren’t treated very kindly those first few years. The Latin-Americans probably also won’t be treated so kindly. But that changed with in two generations, and I hope it will also change with this new influx of Immigrants.
It was not the same way for the Italians up until recently. It was difficult for Western European immigrants, especially those from Catholic countries. And for those who sympathized with socialism. But you can’t say that it’s the same as what Latinos who have immigrated have had to face. That’s just disingenuous.
It was easier for Western European immigrants to assimilate themselves into the American fold because most of them were white. That’s why after a while no one cared. The Irish, the Italians, the Germans, etc. they were able to assimilate. Eventually, America accepted them. It’s not like that for immigrants who are not white. The backlash that they’ve faced has been so much worse than what white Europeans have had to face. Because at the end of the day, even back then, people would take white immigrants over people of color any day.
Well, Italy is a very Catholic country. The Irish had it worse, sure, but it wasn’t easy for Italians.
And, for a long time, Italians weren’t considered white. Especially Sicilians, who generally look something like this. While not quite as dark as some Mexicans or other Latin Americans, it’s definitely not white.
And we have progressed quite a bit as a society - Sure, The South is still pretty bad, but there’s not nearly as much racism as there was eighty years ago. We’re not perfect, but I do think that we’re at a point where Latinos now would be close enough to Italians then.
And I’m confident that Latinos will assimilate eventually - It may take a while, but they already make up 16% of the population, and that number is increasing.
Given time, things will get much better.
It’s not just the South that’s still really racist. I’m not sure what you’re basing the idea that racism isn’t as much of a problem now on…
Racism is still a problem, but it’s decreased.For one thing, Jim Crow laws are gone, and minorities can hold high-level positions in companies and government.
Hell, our president is half-black. He’s not only black, but he’s the product of interracial marriage. That never would have happened fifty years ago.
It is still a problem, but we have progressed quite a bit since the 1920s.
I blamed The South mainly because the only racist people I know are from there. It is stereotyping, and I probably shouldn’t have said it.
You just… you really have no idea…
Minorities can hold high positions… yet the majority of those positions are held by white men. There’s no more Jim Crow laws, but that doesn’t mean shit. Not really.
Not when things are still this bad. I mean, have you looked into this? Really looked into this? Do you think it’s just a coincidence that things like incarceration rates and living conditions for people of color are the way they are?
Just because racism isn’t explicitly protected and codified in law books doesn’t mean the US has progressed much.
Okay, look.
In the year 1800, I could go to my local market and buy a slave. A person, who, due to his race, could be my property.
In the year 1940, Black people had to use different facilities from whites, and were required to tip their hats at white men in some areas.
No Jim Crow laws doesn’t mean shit? Really? That doesn’t mean anything?
Have you ever seen a “Whites only” sign? Because they used to be everywhere.
Yes, prison rates are higher for minorities, and they generally make less. We’re not all the way there yet. I know people who wear hats with Confederate Flags on them. I’m not saying that things are perfect.
Things obviously aren’t as good as they should be, but they are a hell of a lot better. We have hate crime laws on the books, we’re a fully integrated society, and we are not as as things were in 1910 or 1920.
Black people make up 10% of the House of Representatives, and Hispanics make up around 5%. In the Senate, Hispanics account for roughly 2%.
Is this equal or fair? Of course not, it’s skewed to hell. But it is much better then it was eighty years ago.
Progress does not equal perfection. Things have gotten better, but they are not perfect.
I don’t considered no longer being considered by law to be non-human and no longer being considered by law to be sub-human to be great strides of progress. Not when laws are still being proposed that actually do go out of their way to target people of color.
I just have higher expectations than that. I’m not going to congratulate white people for no longer legally buying and selling people against their will. I’m not going to give props to white people for waiting until there was a threat of federal intervention in order to start desegregating public institutions. I’m not going to give props for no longer having those laws.
I’m not going to consider that progress in this country’s favor because way too many people have had to die just to get that.
Also slavery was not part of Jim Crow.
